AnonymousAlb
(Registered)
Posts : 132
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 8:05 AM |
Soooo... in other news EA donated $250k to unicef as part of the tsunami relief fund.
What is mythic doing? Hmm??? NOW would be a good time for them to try and get some of the goodwill back that they lost with this news.
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Cruelty
(On Sabatical)
Posts : 4582
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 8:08 AM |
$12.95 three years ago at 3.5% inflation is $14.35.
Mythic must be truly an evil organization to expect that its revenue / customer should stay constant with its increases in costs.
I find the complaints laughable. WoW: Cruelty NE Druid Level 43
WoW: Cruelty NE Hunter Level 37
WoW: Bloodlust Dwarf Rogue Level 23
WoW: Angst Dwarf Priest Level 20
WoW: Icicle Gnome Mage Level 20
DAOC: 50 Shaman, 50 Thane, 50 Enchanter, 50 Bard, 50 RM
Author of Omni-Guide to DAOC | |
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StarBorn
(Registered)
Posts : 616
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 8:39 AM |
$2 will cause you to not go to college? Perhaps you shouldn't be playing in the first place then? Just a suggestion
And Mignon, right on in that last post :)
Juanita <= Retired, lvl 50 Friar, Church of Dawn, Galahad, (25 Rejuve, 45 Enhance, 39 Staff, 12 Parry) Enairett <= Retired, lvl 50 Bainshee, Celtic Tribe, Guinevere, (49 SF, 22 PW, 5 ES) Dainshaid <= Retired, lvl 13 Warlock, Aegir Adventurers, Merlin, (49 Hex, 20 Witchcraft, 10 Cursing) Now playing Lamorak
New Characters:
Grumsnar the Reaver, Lamorak
Juanita the friar, Lamorak |
Blackblade
(Im Watching YOU)
Posts : 1745
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 8:49 AM |
I suppose, that if I were still playing DAoC, I could understand the frustration.. (Note to self: Cancel my account.) I largely don't believe it's the amount of the increase that bothers people, but rather the principal behind it.
So, let me ask you, Mythic Developers or Representitives: What am I getting for the increased price? Are you hiring more DAoC (NOT Imperator) developers to solve long standing issues? Are we going to get, in writing (talking contracts, not Grab Bag/State of the Game posts), that certain issues will be addressed (Buffbots, Bugs, etc.) within a specific time frame? Are we getting more GM's to lower the que times? Will you be starting to expermint with new ideas (Like server events, clothing, character animations) to help expand your niche in the genre to appeal to the masses?
If you're going to increase my prices, I'd like to know why. And using the excuse of needing the extra cash to do some of the things you announced, or to "Keep up with the Jones'" is simply foolhardy: You did it just fine right up until the new generation of MMO's were unleashed.
Need cash? Don't produce another free expansion. Once a year is probably more then enough, espeically when the money spent on the free expansions could be better spent addressing core issues that the majority of your playerbase aggrees are more pressing.
"My lawyer would say it’s probably for the best that I cannot physically reach through the internet and choke people... But sometimes, I think I’d take the risk…" - Frostman"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying those of us who do.- Slashdot Quote |
Snowjag
(Registered)
Posts : 3
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 8:59 AM |
This is the final nail for me and my 4 accounts. The subscription hike was the last straw in my decsion to leave for WoW.
Perhaps if they'd bother to fix the Hearld displays for Nimue or do server moves, it wouldn't be so bad, but with a server of a very low population it kills it off more, the server looks like it just quit playing on the Herald. So I need to pay more money to still see no one online, right. $60 DAOC $15 WoW... |
Cruelty
(On Sabatical)
Posts : 4582
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 9:13 AM |
"What am I getting for the increased price? Are you hiring more DAoC (NOT Imperator) developers to solve long standing issues? "
Your getting the same level of service that you were three years ago and paying the same price for it. I am amazed that people cannot grasp the concept of inflation and its effects.
WoW: Cruelty NE Druid Level 43
WoW: Cruelty NE Hunter Level 37
WoW: Bloodlust Dwarf Rogue Level 23
WoW: Angst Dwarf Priest Level 20
WoW: Icicle Gnome Mage Level 20
DAOC: 50 Shaman, 50 Thane, 50 Enchanter, 50 Bard, 50 RM
Author of Omni-Guide to DAOC | |
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Blackblade
(Im Watching YOU)
Posts : 1745
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 9:39 AM |
Ahh. Yes.. Inflation.. Forgot about that.. I mean, prices and estimates for maintenance just jump like that, don't they? /Sarcasm off
Forgive me if I sound a bit too Fanboi'ish or Anti-Mythic..
But it's been 3 years. Prices have been STEADILY rising throughout that period for all goods and services. Every economist worth thier salt knew it was going to continue, and even get worse.. Why not even a minor .50 incremental adjustment at some point? Why not steady increases over time to meet expected rising costs as the game expanded?
As you are someone with a strong economical background Cruelty, why don't companies steadily increase price over time to cover for inflation instead of 25% price hikes? Do good companies suddenly hike up prices by that margin for services and give thier customers 1 month notice? Do they just wait to see what the margin of inflation is, and then adjust rates on the spot?
As repeatedly stated, the timing is absolutely horrible. It DOES appear to be more of a death knell then mere compensation for inflation. Doesn't it seem a bit odd that Mythic never announced this was coming, but rather, waited until 400k people paid that price for a competing product, and figured, "Hey, the market can handle it.. Let's do it.. We'll give'em 1 month to think about it."?
"My lawyer would say it’s probably for the best that I cannot physically reach through the internet and choke people... But sometimes, I think I’d take the risk…" - Frostman"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying those of us who do.- Slashdot Quote |
MeatPopsicle
(Registered)
Posts : 30
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 9:40 AM |
*You spend $45 for the chars you've done built up. The new player spends $45 for a free month and fresh toons. Not actually paying for the same thing.
Tho Im sure most new players would swap their empty account for yours in an even trade.
Hmmm.... So what are you saying? That you think it is reasonable to make a returning player pay the price of the full game? |
Cruelty
(On Sabatical)
Posts : 4582
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 9:46 AM |
"As you are someone with a strong economical background Cruelty, why don't companies steadily increase price over time to cover for inflation instead of 25% price hikes? Do good companies suddenly hike up prices by that margin for services and give thier customers 1 month notice?"
I did study economics at university. It's a problem called 'sticky prices'. Companies don't adjust their prices in real time because theoretically inflation is an almost daily issue and they'd be forced to raise prices daily. Instead, they watch the competition and watch their suppliers/costs (which are also sticky).
Lastly, raising prices has a cost attached to it. You may lose some customers and you incur administrative costs by changing your prices. Thus, you result in 'sticky prices'.
You should be thankful that instead of raising prices annually, they raised them now. According to the time value of money, they have taken a loss to your benefit.
After three years of zero prices increases, this is a completely reasonable price increase. They're not riping you off. They're not evil. They're just trying to compenstate for an increase in costs due to inflation. WoW: Cruelty NE Druid Level 43
WoW: Cruelty NE Hunter Level 37
WoW: Bloodlust Dwarf Rogue Level 23
WoW: Angst Dwarf Priest Level 20
WoW: Icicle Gnome Mage Level 20
DAOC: 50 Shaman, 50 Thane, 50 Enchanter, 50 Bard, 50 RM
Author of Omni-Guide to DAOC | |
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Darmoni
(Registered)
Posts : 29
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 9:50 AM |
It's just $2, think of it this way, What can $2 actually buy you? Hardly anything worth buying, other than a dew, and besides, you don't even have to pay more, just pay for a year... then you're paying even less than ppl do in a month... all Mythic really wants you to do is that, it wants a guarantee that its customers are still gonna be around in a year, which i can say i will be, cause this game caught me awhile ago and quite seriously the competition is crap... Warcraft 3, awesome game, taking it to mmo status, bad idea. I'll be the last person aboard the crazy train known as daoc, and i'm sure im not the only one that thinks that.
here's an idea for ya Mythic, go back to the old way of handling a business, The Customer is Always Right... remember that? Well, your CSR's you hire... not all of them do, and they treat your company like crap and don't respect the representatives of it at all, because some of them lose their courtesy after the first couple hours of work, have a talk with them. Just remember it's the little things that make people stop shopping the public stores and start shopping wal-mart, and look what that's done to the economy.
also, the upped rates were planned badly, they should have been done after ToA, and frankly, i'd pay 20 bux a month to play this game, if just to support it. |
tengan
(Registered)
Posts : 294
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 10:09 AM |
hi
14.95 and up is becoming the standard. no 2 ways about about it.
here is a simple current comparison.
daoc 14.95 per month=8-10 characters per rvr server 24-30 on pvp and gaheris=a ton of characters.
eq2 14.95 per month=4 characters period. 21.95 a month gets you 8 characters total.
if a couple of dollars is gonna keep you from playing a game then buy 1 less 6 pack/month or smoke 10 less cigarettes/month. it's that simple. =================================== Experience is something you don't get until after you need it. |
Cruelty
(On Sabatical)
Posts : 4582
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 10:19 AM |
WoW: 14.99 per month + sales tax WoW: Cruelty NE Druid Level 43
WoW: Cruelty NE Hunter Level 37
WoW: Bloodlust Dwarf Rogue Level 23
WoW: Angst Dwarf Priest Level 20
WoW: Icicle Gnome Mage Level 20
DAOC: 50 Shaman, 50 Thane, 50 Enchanter, 50 Bard, 50 RM
Author of Omni-Guide to DAOC | |
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Ciredric
(Necrophiliac)
Posts : 2346
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 10:34 AM |
Boy could I see this coming. Let me rephrase Mark.
Since we messed up so bad with Trial of Atlantis and still have not corrected that abombination, it has caused us to lose a significant number of player accounts so the rest of you will have to make up for the revenue loss.
Belated Merry Xmas to those hardy souls that have stayed with us.
And Mignon, WoW does not require that I have to purchase a bot account to compete. `````` \|/```` ````` @ @```` --oOO-(_)-OOo-- Some Days You're the Pigeon, Some Days You're the Statue . |
agluhowy
(Registered)
Posts : 127
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 10:59 AM |
hahaha this is funny...the responses
fee was 12.95, and now it goes up 2 bucks.
are you kidding me....it is the cheapest entertainment in the world
play all you want for 15 bucks...hell i go to the movies and it costs me 35 bucks. and that's 2 hours of fun
no increases in 3 years...and the game is awesome....i would pay 20 a month
50 cents a day for christs sake |
Cooliwhip
(Registered)
Posts : 13
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 11:11 AM |
I think the idea is that while some of us loyal players are trying desperatly to keep our friends in DAoC with us, this just makes it harder. It's not that the two bucks will kill us, it's just something else to plug into the equation when choosing a game. At least before I could say that DAoC was cheaper then WoW. But as more and more friends head off to other games and my wife and I are about the only ones who still play consistantly, how am I supposed to convince my rather poor friends (and myself) to keep their accounts open? It's to the point where I am helping pay for theirs already just because I don't like playing an MMOG alone.
I'm a big fan of Mythic and their games, but this isn't the way to compete with the new releases.... Dang it... all my friends will quit for sure now, and honestly when that happens, as much as I like DAoC, and kinda hate Blizzard in general, I may move just so I'm not lonely. |
Xhiu
(Registered)
Posts : 4251
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 11:34 AM |
So many translators. So many not concerned with the raise in subscriptions.
This action by Mythic tells me they are not in good financial shape. If they were making money with their product this would not be necessary. In fact if they were making money and doing well they would lower the cost to try to draw more people in. [2@$9>1@$15]
I've seen the lower populations on all servers. I remember Lance and Merlin having over 3k at peak. I remember 72 albs in Thidranki when NF came out. [ok maybe 70 were bots but hey...] I remember when peak service was 30k across all servers. Now it is more like 20k.
A GREAT deal of those players dont play that often anymore but keep up the subscription because it is cheap and they MIGHT come back. Now why do I say this? For the same reason Mythic posted the price of $14.95 instead of $15 even. Because it doesnt look as bad when you read it. That is marketing. Under that same principle people who are making their purchase on marketing decisions are going to balk at the increase... why? Because it looks like an increase. [duh] And those casual players might not want to pay that much money for the online time when they arent online. [duh*2]
All this is doing is allowing Mythic to take an increase in revenues from 4th quarter '04 to first quarter '05. Why do they need to do this? /cough Enron /cough Anderson.
This is to keep them afloat another quarter before people start looking to another way to make money.
That, to me, is the single most indicator that something is really wrong with the game. At least the people who are making a living working the game for plat will have to find another way to get paid.
____________________________________________________ CoC: info you didnt know you needed Classes of Camelot |
Ugonda
(Registered)
Posts : 17
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 11:48 AM |
What do we get for $2 more a month?
We get Romans in space ???
LOL
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Porkchopxp
(Registered)
Posts : 37
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 11:48 AM |
Relatively speaking, the amount of the increase is not the real issue. There are possible messages behind the rate increase though:
1. If we(Mythic) jack-up the monthly rates, perhaps it will motivate our hardcore members to join the 6-12 month plans to lock them up and make sure they don't jump-ship.
2. We(Mythic) have overextended our costs, be they professional or personal and in order to maintain the current profit-line and standard-of-living that we have enjoyed since/for releasing the initial, innovative product that is DAoC we'll have to hit up our loyal, core subscribers for an extra fee per month.
3. We(Mythic) are in trouble and need to increase rates to cover our butts until we can figure out what to do with ourselves once we go under.
Let's face it, if DAoC was released today with all the current content, 14.95 a month would be a bargin. HOWEVER, and it's a huge HOWEVER, this game is 3+ years in and subscribership appears to be half what it once was at it's peak and still dwindling. If the game's inspiration and innovation lies with the concept of RvR and the amount of hardcore players continues to drop, then RvR will suffer ergo the game suffers.
A few major ticks aside(botting, PLing, server pop) DAoC still retains a good lvl of quality and when compared to the market prices of its competitors and it's not ridiculous of Mythic to ask for what their asking unless you've been here since day one and have seen the decline of server communities.
We, the players AND Mythic are responsible for "breaking" DAoC, but Mythic holds the bag when it comes to fixing it; something that should have been addressed before raising their rates to reflect the current market rate.
Mythic has been lucky(blessed really) with the concept/implementation of RvR but are one RvR-esque effort from one of it's competitors from missing that final "ring" of a wake-up call that has been going off since the release of ToA.
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Squeekz
()
Posts : 707
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 11:56 AM |
| EDIT: fuck it... not worth arguing lol |
Guenwyver
(Registered)
Posts : 27
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 12:12 PM |
That is true cruelty iunflation is 14.35 the problem is not the increase of cost i mean what does mythic do with it? their in game support is horrible the csr's will cancle an appeal before considering it, most don't know the game well i have had to correct a few several times on basic stuff so is the money going to hiring people who can actualy do that job second i mean after frontiers LOS has been totaly messed up casters able to stand in a door way and cast freely with no problems yet not be hit, targets right next to you on a stairs and target not visible messages I mean come on you expect me to pay more for faulty programing that you have not straightend out yet so your telling me the extra money will go to developers who know how to program 3d enviroments? or wait maybe just maybe it might be going for class balancing or some of the other countless bugs that have been complained about but never fixed even though you like to release new material with alot of bugs, or even better more money to fix server lag even though you upgraded equipment not to long ago and lag is worse then it ever has been? the 2 dollars a month extra is'nt the problem if mythic realy deserved it hey i would have no problems with it but being a new mother and deciding do i spend 14.95 for daoc a month or 14.95 for WOW a month which do i choose right now my money is on wow I have half the issues with wow that i have with daoc and have not had problems at all getting in game help.
Guen |
tengan
(Registered)
Posts : 294
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 1:06 PM |
HI
a 2 dollar increase says nothing about the financial situation of a company.
comcast just raised my cable bill 2 dollars a month. they are doing quite well.
verizon did the same 2 months ago.
the general trend is that all games are going to 14.95 a month or more. that's still 50 cents a day to play 24/7.
like i said in my above post to put 2 dollars in perspective, it is 1 sixpack of diet coke, 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, 1 supersized fries at mcdonalds.
=================================== Experience is something you don't get until after you need it. |
nero31
(WoW > You)
Posts : 1476
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 1:11 PM |
Hmmm, let's see....
14.95 per month for basic subscription
14.95 per month for basic BOT account
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29.90 a month
PLUS; you probably play for at least a year
29.90 x 12 months = 358.80
Now that is the bottom line; the LEAST you will pay IF you choose to use a bot (hey, this is DAoC, right?) and choose to play for a year using the MONTH at a time subscription fee.
Now, this doesn't take into account the following:
1. the gold you might buy on eBay once you realize you're so far behind the leveling curve that you have no one to grp with and let's face it, you and your bot playing together isn't exactly 'socializing'
2. the L50 toon on eBay that you buy from someone leaving for WoW, EQ@, etc...because you still realize that you are WAY behind the leveling curve and you can't stand to sit around and play 'catch up'...
Mythic is HOPING you will choose the year option and fork out over $100 up front..why? because if you decide to leave the game 4 months into it...you are screwed. No refunds on subscription fees; read the Billing/Account summaries.
Its not inflation driving this increase; its to start making up for inactive accounts and cancelled subscriptions coupled with the development of Romans vs. Mayan Robots (aka: Imperator).
I'll stick with my one WoW account :) Back for one more round.... |
Keoki&Geek
(Registered)
Posts : 1
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 1:18 PM |
I love you Mythic. But you are like a parent and I hate you at the same time. Ive played 3+ years and have left and come back a few times because of my love and hatred for you. Price goin up? Whatever. I don't care. Hib > Alb in RvR? Yes. Why????? Parents arent supposed to be bias....They are supposed to love their children equally..not giving one more than the other would have. Balance? Ive heard you say this but have never actually seen it. Elves are cute arent they :)) Just like a kid with a lollipop...OR A KNIFE STABBING YOU FROM BEHIND OR BOLTING YOU FROM YONDER TREE!!! Ouch.
Server Merge. Beautiful idea. Lets get some of these servers with no one on it to join up with more popular ones...more people=more fun.
Money. No problem for me. For some maybe but hey, such is life. Nothing is cheap.
Eq2...no point to that game.
WoW...graphics look like old school mario..sorry Im not 12 and that doesnt excite me.
Catacombs and ToA Mythic?? Damn. You have good ideas but implement them poorly. Better graphics..ok. Scrolls never drop .. years to find em .. takes forever for some encounters to pop up...thought the game was about RvR? Yet I hate going cuz I die before I ever see who's coming .. I could be with 8 people and we all die before we know what happens..and you know who it is? That cute lil elf with his stealther and bot. That damn bot. That damn /level 20. Took the fun outta the game. No more old world..who wants to go there../level 20 and skip it all. Who needs that almighty Smite cleric of yesteryear...make a bot..its easier..whatever.
I'll keep playing but ..............
Keoki 50 Friar MLF
Geek 40 Wiz MLF
P.S. Yes I only have 1 lvl 50 in 3+ years of play. Unlike some, I have a life outside the game :) WTF? Note to self: PLAY MORE. |
juliandracos
(Registered)
Posts : 433
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RE: Subscription Fees Going Up |
01/05/05 1:23 PM |
I love the argument that it is the princple of it. What principle? That you are cheap and complain about everything? I guess the argument is that they have been making $12.95 a month and the game is not fixed. Which really means that game is not the way they want it to be. There is no change that they can make that will make everyone happy. People complain about RvR about how it is just going out to Emain and how boring/easy it is to take a keep so Mythic gives a huge FREE new RvR zone. Now all of those players who were happy with the way things were are upset. The same happens with changes to classes and really any other change.
Here is a wake up call - this is an mmorpg. This means they will make changes to the game, have you seen that little warning on the bottom of your login screen? It means they will change things. It does not mean you will get what you want. Changes to classes they might make, but it doesn't mean you are going to like them. Getting rid of NF isn't going to happen unless it is to something else - not the old frontier. They are not going to remove ToA. If you can't accept that it it bothers you so much then you are better off not playing any mmorpg because the stress will take you to an early grave.
Here is some information you might all want to know. Given Mythic's location their network engineer will make $122,000 a year. Their software engineers will make $50,000. Programers will make $100,000. The only people there that would make less than $50,000 a year are the people on the phone who would be making $25,000 a year.
So lets see. Mythic has more than doubled its staff just for DAOC. Almost every one of their employees will be making between 50K-150K a year. You have huge health care costs. Energy prices have more than doubled. You must also maintain/replace comptuer equipment. You have high corporate income taxes. You have income taxes for the state of virginia. If you own your building you will have property taxes.
So given all of that they are basically asking you to give them money to adjust for inflation. And if you have to raise your fee to adjust for inflation it is better to do it every few years. If you do it on a constant basis then people really would complain. "My bill goes up every 6 months." People will get over a one time hike in a few months they won't if a few months down the line it goes up again.
You may not like it, but Mythic is completely justified in trying to offset the higher cost of doing buisness and inflation.
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